On Facebook, someone posted “Can a Christian be pro-choice on the abortion issue?” The ensuing responses were varied.
I ended up in a bit of an argument with one of the commenters. Here’s the comment thread if you want some background to my comments. Clicking the screenshot will take you to the Facebook post.
What you see here is my response to Donald’s final comment with Donald’s comment included.
OK. Donald. I hate to have to do this, but maybe for the benefit of someone who will read this, if not you as well.
You wrote //** Ted, I love God as my Father and and His Son Yeshua (Jesus) as my Lord and Friend. I am sorry about my last response but that was the mentality of the logic being offered in the discussion that turned to Michael’s condemnations, assumptions and judgments. **//
1. Then you are not sorry. True apologies aren’t followed by excuses. Just stand by what you said.
2. I made no assumptions. I simply believed what you said. You said it is OK to murder a little baby in some situations, the situations you define as it being OK. I also cannot condemn, but I can warn you of God’s condemnation on those who approve of wickedness, promote wickedness or participate in wickedness (murder is wicked, BTW, child murder even more wicked maybe).
3. I am not ashamed of judgement. You are saying evil things, should a man of God sit by quietly when evil is spoken in the name of our Lord who you claim to represent?
You wrote //** I love God but to force a women to suffer continued injuries after being raped by stranger of family is unreasonable to me. **//
1. Here’s a tip – if you start a sentence with “I love God,” don’t include “but” in that sentence. This is my fear for you Donald, that you don’t really love God. Because God demands devotion above and beyond our apparent care for other people. (Luke 14:26)
2. And here’s the real point, Donald. You say you don’t want to force a woman to suffer continued injuries after being raped…this is noble. The problem is that becoming a murderer is actually the WORST thing for the woman. Abortion is a terrible thing to do TO a woman. So if you really don’t want woman to suffer further injury after rape or forced incest, encourage them to trust God, respect life and find healing in Jesus Christ rather than simply murdering an innocent baby. Nothing will be more detrimental to a woman in that situation than the belief that ending the pregnancy will make them feel better only to realize that ending the pregnancy NOT ONLY does not make them feel better but it will add the guilt of murder for the rest of her life on her conscience.
If you love women – tell them abortion is absolutely sinful and point them to Jesus Christ.
You wrote //** My point to Michael is that the sin needs to be stopped at it’s beginning! With sex deviants getting little to no time, many of those with wealth not even being approached for their indecencies, we instead continue the assault on the victim! ALL other abortions I detest and consider murder. Can I possibly be any clearer? **//
1. Logic is important. God is logical. He doesn’t change. He cannot deny Himself. So we, made in his image must be logical.
2. There is simply no logic to this statement. The post is about abortion. Do I really need to tell you I oppose rape? I do. But does the fact that I stayed focus on the topic of discussion somehow mean you can imply I am not against rape?
3. No you cannot be clearer, Donald. You have made it clear that murdering babies is OK if you think the baby’s conception was the result of some other sin where the mother was the victim of the sin. << This is actually what we are arguing about.
You wrote //** To Michael, it is more important as to the exception to my stance on abortion while ignoring the new Oregon gender abortion law that allows abortions for gender choice as late as 9 months pregnant! Michael did not seem to care about that one word worth! Shame .
1. Now what’s really interesting is how you try to twist everything with your final statement. You imply that I don’t care about an Oregon law regarding abortion when, in fact, my stance from the beginning has been anti-abortion entirely. If you did this intentionally, it is sin to misrepresent me in this way. If unintentional, then I guess I can overlook it.
2. You seem to be arguing that abortion for gender selection at a late age is unacceptable, but abortion for the reasons you gave, presumably at a younger age is OK. This is a sin and a logical fallacy. The age of the human being being slaughtered by abortion is irrelevant to the fact that it is murder. Reasons may seem more or less barbaric or irrational, but in the end, I’m not here to judge the apparent motives of the murdered, I’m here to judge the action of murder. In my view, I don’t need to play with these distinctions, I think abortion is murder all the time.
This is why I asked you when it ends, Donald. Can a woman who was raped have a baby then look at the baby, be reminded of her rapist and kill the child? Why not? Why would you force her to suffer again? By your logic you could not prevent that, unless you just want to play the “we can kill babies before they have faces or have formed hands” young gestational age argument.
Donald, your soul is important. You are either a sinner deceived into thinking he knows Christ or you are a seriously in error, immature in thinking, Christian. I challenge you to consider these things because I care about your soul. You are important too, just like raped women and babies.
If your response to this is just that I’m hateful and judgmental then you’re not reading. The entire post was written for your benefit, that you may see clearly. Are you offended that I say you do not see clearly? I’m sure you are. But faithful are the wounds of a friend. I care too much about Jesus, babies, women who are victims and you, Donald, to not tell you these things.
P.S. In case this needs to be said (which is really sad if it does) – I also believe rape to be wrong. And incest is wrong. And incestual rape is wrong. I do not think it is logical to say that because I oppose abortion I in any way endorse sinful acts which could result in pregnancy. If you read my anti-abortion arguments and come away believing I am defending rape you are seriously mistaken and likely misinterpreting intentionally to fulfill your own agenda or just lacking in some basic skills of reading and logic. I do not mean to be harsh or mean about this, but we need to be grownups who can have a conversation on one topic and not misrepresent the things people say.